[-] No. 274459 [PM]
Something has been cooking inside me and not the Weber (laugh track)
Ever since I went to italy and walked in pompeii I kept thinking about religions and I came to the following conclusion. By the goatisian doctrine, religions are high level programming that makes you do things that you wouldn't naturally do. But how did we get here? It's easy and I can sort religions into three categories, levels, of sorts.
Level 1 religion: ancient religions
These use natural events like calamities, seasons changing, moon phases and natural elements to build upon and fool the individual.
Simple examples are all ancient religions like ancient egypt, shamanism, ancient roman religions. Each natural occurence and entity has their own god that demands respect, like moon god, house god, god of agriculture and rice.
This level of religion requires agricultural society where people get shielded from basic weather like rain or the seasons changing. Level one religions have very low level of programming, people still protect their natural borders like family, the land, the state. Fooling people here completely depends on their stupidity, force. They give a religious made up context to natural things and use that to manipulate the mind.
Level 2 religions:
these require more advancement from civilization. Some members start to work in other areas of society separated from agriculture, meaning industry and the matters of state.
Higher levels of ideals get introduced, aka higher levels of brainwashing. Loving every human, loving other muslims, hospitality etc.
Examples are the religions leftover today, christianity, islam and the likes.
Turning the other cheek even when the other means harm, and muslims tolerating the rich ones getting 6 wives while the poor ones get nothing comes to mind, these are all very repulsive on a natural level but these higher level religions make it so.
Level 2 religions in their transitory periods still need to build on their level 1 motifs, (ever notice how easter (ramadan) is timed at a full moon?) and those motifs ground level 2 religions for the dumbest to make it holy and relatable.
Level 3 religions are the highest level. They are completely detached from nature. They thrive in cyberpunk fiction where the average human has little to no relation to the things of nature.
Concurrent examples are transgenderism, where members usually spend time in rooms on computers in a society which encourages this, they usually don't have contact with natural peers like family members, animals they should be raising and eating. Their income depends on something completely unnatural, abstract and manmade like money (crypto etc) doing something completely unnatural (OF, drawing fictional porn, programming)
These people have basically no natural impulses that would get them back on the ground thus being able to getting manipulated on the highest level aka mutilating themselves.
Scientology is also a level 3 religion. You need to be preprogrammed by scifi to even have a shred of chance to be fooled by it. It has zero natural grounds to stand on.
Society and science needs to advance to a certain level where level 3 religions can sneak in the poison pill. There is no transgenderism without understanding of hormones and there is no scientology without understanding space, timelines before man, and other religions promoting the same.
Transhumanism also belongs here. You can't convince a natural human to chop off his hand before showing him a working prosthetic.
the conclusion is the further away you live from nature, the easier you will be to fool
And for the love of god/yahweh/tengri/omnipotentialbeing, just fucking snap out of it already, kotia.
No. 274462 [PM]
One thing I left out that is very crucial to brainwashing is dreaming and escapism. You can only manipulate someone who is discontent in their environment. Someone who wants more than what reality is.
No. 274485 [PM]
>Level 1 religion: ancient religions
Nah, the ancient religion have more complexity than being simple about natural phenomena. They are not so easy to understand with modern world view, because they didnt have clear seperation of "religion" and "earthly". its also not necessarily true that they thought those pictures (like ancient egyptian gods) to be literally a man with animals head or whatever. The earliest gods of theirs are just plain animals, then later men with animal head or so. they didnt suddenly change their view how gods looked, but their theological motive to change it. For ancient people it wouldnt have mattered if you explained them how something works precisely using science and so on, they would still have just viewed the fact as manifestation of gods work. thats also why they were advanced as civilization yet had such "primitive" religion.
>Level 2 religions:
Well there is lot to unpack here, but let just put it plainly. Religions like christianity came into fruition because of how society of rome was organized. its a huge area with different peoples with different rights. its make sense to start a movement that puts everyone in equal standing in such a environment, because first of all you get followers easily, because most people had hard time, people care more about their imminent life, than some weird theological stuff. Of course when rome adopted christianity it made fit into imperial worship, so it didnt work out as planned.
>Level 3 religions are the highest level.
these are some internet cult and such. i think you would need separate category for scientology. If you only focus on the money and level advancement thing then you might compare it to TV-evangelists at best. But its not computer life oriented or being alone oriented, quite the contrary it has strong focus on events with people, charity work and so on. Theologically its very oldschool, everyone has a eternal soul, but there is no judgemental god or hell or such. Sometimes is compared to gnosticism, but i dont like that comparison. id say it has this old village shaman vibe to it, if you ignore the guys in suits and big churches. Although i think its golden age was when LRH was still alive. i have nothing against miscavige, but i think a new ecclesiastical leader is necessary to revitalize scientology.
anyway the goal of scientology is good, both the goal for individual and the goal for the world, but since there are so many bad actors in the world that spread misinformation and propaganda against them its not very easy to accomplish. Sure there are controversies, but with what religion there isnt?
No. 274487 [PM]
>>274485>Sure there are controversies, but with what religion there isnt?why do you have to accept controversies? Why can't you just live in harmony with nature? Why can't you accept the plain old reality and be better in it?
I feel like you missed the whole point.
No. 274489 [PM]
>>274487>why do you have to accept controversies?With proper evidence i sure as hell accept any wrongdoings as such.
>Why can't you just live in harmony with nature?I do live in harmony with nature, as much as any person today.
>Why can't you accept the plain old reality and be better in it?But i do? i dont accet any dogma or accept things which cannot be demonstrated or experienced.
No. 274499 [PM]
>>274489>I do live in harmony with nature, as much as any person today.obvious dishonesty on display. You wouldn't be into so deeply in a lvl 3 religion if you were satisfied with the lvl2 offerings, not to mention your deep contempt for christianity.
>But i do? i dont accet any dogma or accept things which cannot be demonstrated or experienced.may I remind you you still havent even referred to these magical scientology experiments which are hard to debunk so the only thing I found was a guy jerking off into a jar and then a woman showing up who was already on the way there
>With proper evidence i sure as hell accept any wrongdoings as such.…
No. 274511 [PM]
>>274499truth claims of christianity:
>there is a omnipotent god that evolved from iron age jewish paganismretarded, even the old testament suggests he is not omnipotent
>the human are born to "sin", and need to repent for the factbecause of some magic apple? simply retarded
>if you do sin and not repent, you go to hellretarded + there isnt even unified concept of hell in the bible. both the old and the new testament have multiple concepts of hell
>you must repeatedly say JESUS and cry and be schizo about itabsolutely retarded, it will look no better than any person cult
>the bible is fully written by jews, except maybe the luke's gospelsus, to say the least…
>trinityjust retarded and not even logical, labeled as "mystery" of god to avoid any criticism
>god sacrifice his own sonliterally the most retarded of it all, why would a omnipotent god make this ritual of self-sacrifice. i mean, its not really even sacrifice, because sacrifice requires loss and jesus was not lost. also it was a planned and intended, which makes it even less sacrifice.
>morals come from oneliners which some are generally thought to be good, yet are flexible based on contextmeh.
>in general the stories of bible, noah ark and so onjust plainly primitive, understandable only in context of writer (he obviously didnt know much about world), but absolutely not useful in modern understanding of world.
Truth claims of scientology:
>human has a soulintuitively true (consciousness and etc)
>human soul is eternal and is reborn after deathtrue and supported by past life and out of body experiences
>human soul carry engramstrue alone on practical level (long-term trauma and so on)
>engrams can be clearedtrue alone on practical and therapetic level
>human soul can become "spiritually trapped"true, as seen in destructive behavioral patterns
>human soul has forgotten its original capabilitiestrue, partly supported by spiritual awakening experiences
>human soul can regain higher spiritual consciousnesssupported by transformative experiences
>human souls seeks freedom from material limitssupported by spiritual longing
No. 274520 [PM]
I am sorta curious how human mind comes from simple animism and worship of some aspects of human life (like Mercury for trade, Mars for war etc) into a complete and abstracted all-encompassing monotheistic deity (Sol Invictus, Islamic/Abrahamic/Christian God etc). IMO it's a huge leap to make and not sure how it happened exactly
The transition from monotheism to "atheism with values"/ideology seems sorta simple, people just seem to sorta keep worshipping God but do it very individually and omit some aspects, like definitely omit the ritual of worship itself etc
(YOLOER)
No. 274521 [PM]
>>274520religion is a scheme to get retards money
wigga says watergod wants you to give me your money, other says i believe in tree god
monotheistic deity was born three minutes later
(YOLO) No. 274522 [PM]
>>274514Still crazy to me that this bigger didn't just black his face out :DDD
No. 274523 [PM]
>>274520>IMO it's a huge leap to make and not sure how it happened exactlyI literally laid it out for you
1. Agricultural soyciety - you have to tend the animals, tend to plants, help shape them, trim them, help them getting born, deeply connected to nature, seasons, rain, sun etc. Your gods are the rain, the sun and the weather.
Step 2 you live in the city, eat real food but your job is unrelated to that, you get fake money and produce abstract goods
Step 3 you live in the commieblock, you get abstract funds, get goyfeed independent of seasons, rain etc yozmu are completely disconnected
The more disconnected you get from nature, the easier you are to fool
No. 274525 [PM]
>>274520When it comes to abrahamic religions, it developed from national gods (god tied to soil), when jews lost their land during babylonian exile, the priests had to redefine yahweh not being tied to soil, so they declared him as god of the whole world and as such he needed to be god of every aspect of it.
though, this doesnt mean monotheism didnt exists prior to that, pharaoh akhenaton (the heretic), tried to establish monotheism in form of aton worship, but thats a whole different story.
No. 274528 [PM]
>>274526i made it generic on purpose, because LRH stuff is verbose. the books are not publicly available, and the voice lectures are long (and not easily available either).
later if i have proper time, then i could make a proper list with references.
but i think its unfair to label it like u did. only an idiot values complexity over simplicity.
No. 274533 [PM]
>>274528Believe me I would love to find a more flattering label, but the stuff you listed is very much mainstream pop spirituality.
>i made it generic on purpose, because LRH stuff is verbose. the books are not publicly available, and the voice lectures are long (and not easily available either).then we have nothing to speak about.
If we can't maintain the similar high standard when it comes to arguments aka providing sources, there is nothing to do here. I'm not going to believe his experiments "are hard to debunk" because you told me so without seeing the material itself.
>only an idiot values complexity over simplicity.that's a line to remember. Exactly!
why are you building these invisible frameworks of religion in your head again? Why?
No. 274541 [PM]
>>274533yes, but i didnt make a claim about LRH claims. i made a truth claim list and put in very general terms how they can be observed.
but like i said, i could try and make more compelling list of arguments later that we can actually debate about. why not now? because its saturday evening and im drinking booze and planning to watch show with my bro.
No. 274546 [PM]
>>274541Understandable, have a nice evening bub
No. 274558 [PM]
>>274521Yea that does make sense lol
So it's like some image actively shilled/enforced down the social hierarchy by some special class of people
>>274523Yea but you trace a bit of a different progress
Though I guess I did think about civilizing (city-izing) playing a major role in this, like only "civilized" societies aimed to adopt some sort of monotheism
>>274525TY
TBH I was a bit surprised to learn that Allah and Yahweh seem to have come from actual different sources. Like Allah seems to have been a small local deity in Arabian lands (with some distinct duties too, like for example people prayed to him for protection against danger in travels) but then somehow it got spearheaded into the master god (it happened kinda slowly though) - and then people who lived there (there was some civilization at the time) somehow agreed that those gods (the Jewish one and the Arabian one) are the same
Think people usually just don't give a shit about what they worship unless they are true fanatics ww
But yea, lots of other societies arrived to some monotheism or went in that direction as well, like Sol Invictus, Ahura Mazda etc. Oddly enough, Indian and Chinese societies seem to not have gone in that direction, while being unquestionably civilized
(YOLO) No. 274564 [PM]
>>274558strange fact relating to your post, in finnish the name for christian god is "jumala", not etymologically related to yahweh or god or deus at all.
jumala is finno-ugric shamanistic concept, meaning spirit of the world, and its much older concept than christian idea of omnipotent god
when christians conquered finland, they were surprised that finns already had word for what they conceptualized as god, so they just kept using that, instead trying to introduce anything new.
No. 274565 [PM]
>>274564Dianetics of course refers to Hubbard’s appreciation for Crowley, hence Diana.
No. 274566 [PM]
>>274565you think this is going to trigger me, but i never saw crowley as a bad man, only a curious one.
No. 274575 [PM]
>>274573*gives u a noogie*
No. 274579 [PM]
>>274573according to finnish folklorists and especially martti haavio, its not like that at all.
"jumala" (god) is not a personified being, but rather a invisible force or infinity itself.
its completely different from later introduced gods with rituals and rules, but just plain unpersonified force, they pictured it with waterfowl, not because the bird is god, but it symbolizes moving across the realities, sky, earth and water. meaning its everywhere unconditionally. i think rus people had similar concept too until it was perverted by roman/germanic ideas.
No. 274581 [PM]
>>274579Sounds pretty epic NGL ww
Crossed my mind that there is an ancient Finno-Ugric (pre-Slavic) settlement ruin kinda site not too far from me home, kinda wanted to go there recently but still haven't come w
(YOLO)